Curse

neoflame · Aug 11, 2007, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Yet 11,10,10 is still better than 12,12,3 for that.

I'm not disputing that at all.

martialis · Aug 11, 2007, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pae

Even if the mission is easy, there's no reason not to use a good build... .

He doesn't play monk and he doesn't trust you. You could have just been nice to him and done the mission with a group....

I've seen worse than that in hard mode, but there's no bitching in hard mode.

Winterclaw · Aug 11, 2007, 02:43 AM // 02:43

No hard res, no elite, and mending combine for a fairly bad hero monk build. I wouldn't call it elitistism like the others, but I would call it a pig-head who needs to learn about the game a little more. If he wanted to use that by himself he could, but part of the thing about having real people in a party is working together.

I would go easish on him if he was new to the game, but if he was playing for awhile then he really is going to have some problems.

Phantom Gun · Aug 11, 2007, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Could go either way really. I'm not going to comment on his build. In regards to his attitude, well he could of been on the defensive due to flaming from other people, or he could of thought his build was the pwn button. Either way there is nothing wrong with trying to make suggestions, or questioning somebody else's build, it's when you just flame them and then auto kick them when it becomes a problem. It's also a problem when people try to suggest builds for a profession they don't understand. I'm not saying that's what happened with you, i'm just covering a few possible scenarios.

against · Aug 11, 2007, 04:33 AM // 04:33

Christ, that is pretty terrible. How can someone have so little common sense? It gives me a headache.

Gregslot · Aug 11, 2007, 04:48 AM // 04:48

I would be happier if i were as ignorant as these people!
Those lucky bastards!

After people kicking me out of the group at The Deep because i used Glyph of Renewal and Meteor Shower i gave up doing anything that did not involved henchies or heroes.

So there you go, you found out that there are people THAT stupid and narrow-minded

the_jos · Aug 11, 2007, 07:09 AM // 07:09

I think a lot of people would comment our guild teams to have some form of 'elitism'.
We don't mind people not being able to run a specific build (unless asked for that specific build when making a team). However, when the bar looks odd, we do ask questions on the how and why of that build.
On the other hand, we do kick people from teams now and then.
It happens very infrequent and only when people use builds that are totally messed up and they don't want to change.
Like the W/Mo we encountered last time in Great Northern Wall with points in every attribute, skills spread. When we asked why he had points in Hammer mastery and no hammer skill, there was no solid reaction. And he would/could not change the build.

Now, I don't mind doing this mission with such a person in Normal Mode, but Hard Mode is a different story

There is one little thing I'd like to comment to:

Quote:

No hard res, no elite, and mending combine for a fairly bad hero monk build.

I do agree on the mending. The no elite can also mean it's a new player that does not have the right elites unlocked.
The 'no hard res' is questionable.
When I use hero monks, I disable res, if it's even on the bar.
I want the monk to heal and not res.
Hero monks tend to combat res and that can turn out very wrong, specially with a skill like Rebirth.

Curse You · Aug 11, 2007, 07:34 AM // 07:34

I've had to tell people that their hero builds have rather obvious flaws. One of the most common of which is the lack of an energy management skill.

Unlike people, heroes need something for energy management because they're too dumb to know when a good time to use a skill is. They will commonly use a 25 energy skill on a target that is about to die (Meteor Shower anyone?). Add to that the fact that most AI monks will heal people with some of the most costly (and powerful) heals when that person has only lost a small bit of health, thus wasting away their energy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Feathers

And folks wonder why I would rather have guildies or heroes in my party ? Honestly most PUGS have been a 95% failure rate in most instances I have tried them.

I'm been finding this amazingly more true now. I tried doing Grand Court of Sebelkeh on my mesmer a few days ago, and every PUG I joined failed it. I later did it with a guldmate and 6 heroes, and we did it with near masters completion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakatz

If you indeed approached him using the words you've put into quotes, I can understand why he responded the way he did. "You should (or shouldn't)..." is aggressive language and, in this case, it appears your advice ("You shouldn't") is unsolicited. Unsolicited advice is much more likely than not going to receive an angry response.

The word "should" is suggestive by nature. It is not a demand, and anyone who takes it that way should consider re-learning English.

OrangeArrow · Aug 11, 2007, 08:08 AM // 08:08

You have to understand that most people who know what they are doing these days dont Pug Missions anymore. I been messing around in GW again after few months away and I have been messing around in pugs for shits and giggles and it seems that the only people that do pugs are New People who really dont understand the game well enough yet or People who suck at their class but dont know it (DPS with crap damage, healers that cant heal).

The sad part is at the end they go on about how uber "We" are yet inside i feel like i basically carried the team. I have been in some good pugs the last few days but the huge majority are clueless.

by the looks of skill in the post im guessing the guy hasnt really played monk much and probabaly doesnt have a huge pool of skills to choose from.

yesitsrob · Aug 11, 2007, 08:23 AM // 08:23

personally i think hard resses on a monk are pretty epic fail. You really would do a much better job of keeping people alive if you used your 8 slots for doing that.

Government Flu · Aug 11, 2007, 08:46 AM // 08:46

You know, I do miss the old days when the game was entirely new and fresh for me and everything was ripe for exploration and experimentation. Joining a PUG was always a strange and sometimes frustrating or wonderful experience, changing skills, figuring out the strengths and weaknesses of my chosen first class...

But these days I lack the patience to join PUGs. Whenever I do, 9 times out of 10 it ends in disaster. For instance, after hero/henching all of the previous missions in Factions with my monk, I decided to join a party for Eternal Grove. However, we were ripped apart. I had a good build, I was healing well but we just weren't handling the mission well as a whole.

I ended up leaving the group after we were wiped and beat the mission using my heroes and henchmen on my first try. (As a monk.)

Although I do have to admit, being in a PUG these days is usually comedic. It's interesting to see warriors using conjure phantasm and suffering...

On a final note, I don't think people should become so competitive too fast! It'll ruin the fun of the game. After you learn the ropes, so many things lose their charm and become automatic, so yeah...the original poster's build might be very ineffective, but it's something he designed and it's something he's probably proud of.

Since this game is usually a long term commitment, there's no rush!

$neekie · Aug 11, 2007, 10:34 AM // 10:34

At the risk of getting flamed at, there are 2 sides.

It all really depends how its asked, yesterday i ragged quit a group(still in town) because of L33t(sry to even use the word) babbles. Im al for giving advice but dont tell me what to do, yes im relativly new(play on and off for a year) but im a good ranger, done most missions(got masters on most).30 min waiting for group AND 30 min telling everybody what his/her build should be, then telling me i should change profesions(wich i refused, the hole point of me doing that mission wich i already mastered, was trying out the diffrent combo s) after that i left the group.

But im just now gettin serious in playing this game, reading more, trying out more skills ect. Thats half the fun for me, i dont use the regular builds(maybe i do, i dont know)............its just fun to try out everything yourself( dont tell me to practice with hench because that not nearly the same as a live group).

And yes i sometimes make beginer mistakes(yesterday forgot res for my pet,lol), but at that point i had a patient group, i told my mistake np. We did it again and we got it. Some(a lot) people still learning, so some patience would be nice from longtime players.

Sry to come on strong, but i always ask wenn i join a group, if i need to take something. 90% of the time i dont even get a answer, or get kicked for being a n00b because they think i dont know what to bring, duh. And yes sometimes i dont have clue what people are talking about lol........... but i ask or try to look it up.

mzzls

Longasc · Aug 11, 2007, 11:55 AM // 11:55

I think discussing a build with a PUG is pretty pointless.

You might be right, they might be right, but most seem unable to come to a compromise or willing to work together. Solution: Friends, Heroes, Henchmen.

PUGs suck for so many reasons, I do not find them enjoyable and wonder that people still "LF random guyz to play with".

Darkobra · Aug 11, 2007, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Hench and heroes will always be the best for me. They listen to orders, they actually ATTACK the monks when told to and they aren't ignorant, elitist whiners who'll talk about how good they are at the game and demand a res before they rage quit.

DarkNecrid · Aug 11, 2007, 01:06 PM // 13:06

"On a final note, I don't think people should become so competitive too fast! It'll ruin the fun of the game. After you learn the ropes, so many things lose their charm and become automatic, so yeah...the original poster's build might be very ineffective, but it's something he designed and it's something he's probably proud of.

Since this game is usually a long term commitment, there's no rush!"

QFT

Fril Estelin · Aug 11, 2007, 01:41 PM // 13:41

To the OP (and others): I wish I could PUG with people like you, I'm not that experienced but I can appreciate when others advice are beneficial. We (the newbs, not part of the n00b population

) want more people with friendly advice!

Thanks guys! (until I'm the guy to give advice

)

free_fall · Aug 11, 2007, 03:25 PM // 15:25

"The word "should" is suggestive by nature. It is not a demand, and anyone who takes it that way should consider re-learning English."

should – auxiliary verb
1. past tense of shall.
2. (used to express condition): Were he to arrive, I should be pleased.
3. must; ought (used to indicate duty, propriety, or expediency): You should not do that.
4. would (used to make a statement less direct or blunt): I should think you would apologize.

[...] Because the main function of should in modern American English is to express duty, necessity, etc.

So, if I was merely intending to suggest, rather than saying "you should", I would say "you might try" or "you might consider" looking things up in a dictionary.

Chicken Ftw · Aug 11, 2007, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

personally i think hard resses on a monk are pretty epic fail. You really would do a much better job of keeping people alive if you used your 8 slots for doing that.

QFT. If the monk of all people has to res (multiple times even, if you need hard res), you need either a better monk, or better teammates. Something is going horribly wrong.

pingu666 · Aug 11, 2007, 03:58 PM // 15:58

ive seen worse, mystic regen on a monk XD

some pugs are epic fail, like a ranger using bha and dilbitating shot on shiro (in hardmode), but some are good

3.55 at grand court on my assassin, with a pug, for example

Anphobia · Aug 11, 2007, 05:51 PM // 17:51

The worst part about builds for me these days is being a necro and NOT being a minionmancer, I hate it when I join a group and it's always "hi mm"..."no blood (or whatever). *kicked*.

And theres me...again looking for another party.

I mean, you could have a blood necro AND a minionmancer...either way my necro is a good damage dealer and would've done that team good.